The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water.
—John W. Gardner
I was surprised a few years ago by the preface in the U. S. News and World Report annual issue on the country’s best colleges. It said its rankings are still valid but they couldn’t honestly say the colleges were worth the price. Things have not improved since then.
Costs have gone through the roof, increasing faster than the cost of medical care, and many students end up saddled with years, or a lifetime, of debt. I read one article that said 15% of student loans are owed by people over 65. And economists are warning that the over one trillion dollars of student debt will weigh down the economy for years to come. Some call it the next financial bubble.
So what happened? As far as I can tell the main problem is the notion that everyone should go to college, regardless of interest or aptitude. That was the only way to success in life. To give everyone the opportunity credit was made easy with no regard as to whether the students would be able to pay the debt off after college. Or without any regard as to whether or not the college experience and degree was really what the students needed to prepare them for life.
The colleges were in great shape, with plenty of students clamoring to get in. In general they could blissfully go on doing what they’ve been doing and raise their rates. It wasn’t their problem. Fortunately that may be changing. For instance Harvard, MIT and Stanford are looking into providing online classes, so new alternatives will be opening up. I think that’s a healthy development. I also think that it would be healthier if we stopped equating education with a college degree. I went to college because I always wanted to go and worked hard to get there and to get my degree. My sister didn’t go because she wasn’t interested. We both made great choices. She had an outstanding work ethic and did just fine in life. She’s better read than a lot of people I know who have their degrees, and she’s doing a fantastic job doing research on companies as she trades in the stock market.
What about you? How important was college to you? If you went what parts of it was the most valuable? Would it have been worth being saddled with years and years of debt?
College costs are excessive. Student debt is probably the next financial bubble and it will impact most Americans, whether they went to college or not. Student loans are unfairly guaranteed by being almost bankruptcy proof — it is practically impossible to discharge student loan debt through the bankruptcy process.
Yes, I went to college… and failed to get through the first year due to lack of reliable transportation — totaled my car when I hit a horse (killed the horse) — and distance to the campus. Funding that year was from the VA on my dad’s disability.
Years later I went back to college and finished, as a non-traditional student. Funding was VA under my own service. After that program expired, most of the rest of the funding was from my employer. We picked up the rest.
I took a lot of my classes at the local university, but the upper level classes — and my degree — were finished at the Little Rock Air Force Base in a degree program from Southern Illinois University.
I finished my degree because it was something I had failed to complete when I was younger — and the consideration that it might add to my resume if I needed to move on to a different job. The degree made little difference in my work, though the company took credit for it in accreditation renewal for our operations training programs.
There are too many people today with degrees that add little value. Many of them are saddled with student loans, but can’t get a job in their degree field or the pay in that field is inadequate.
With two years under my belt, I stopped. My love of art came first. College could teach me the fundamentals, but not creativity. I couldn’t draw, paint, or sculpt fast enough to suit me; I left to find the sky! No regrets!!
Mike,
I agree with you that the present system is insane and that we will all have to pay for that insanity. Did you find anything of value in the courses you took?
One of the main things I got from college was learning how to solve problems and the importance of drill, drill, drill when I want to know how to do something. Both of those skills/habits are extremely useful to me now.
dcrelief,
That does sound like a wise choice!
I took several computer related classes that helped at the time and a couple of photography classes that helped lay the foundation of my photography. My degree is in Industrial Technology and I have a better understanding of industry, in general, than most, but I can’t say that much has been beneficial. I only struggled with one class.
I did not see the inside of a college after school and started to work. I was bulldozed into studying in a distant education program to do five years of private study to gain my bachelor’s degree. I was again forced by circumstances to opt for a two year post graduate business management program, which I financed through my savings and scholarships. So, I did not get burdened with any debt.
In India, education loans have just begun to be offered and parents finance the education of their children for as long as it takes.
The standard of higher education in our system too is breaking down though there are still some islands of excellence. The establishment has just started to meddle there too and in short, I am glad that I do not have grand children.
I didn’t kill a horse lol or anything interesting. I went to a small (300 students) woman’s college in Virginia that my mother picked. The professors were PhDs from Ivy League schools & we had to WORK. Hardest thing I ever did. Good. Built character.
My mother picked my husband. He was stable & his mother was a good friend of my mother. Also he was getting a doctorate in physics from Yale. That helped. Been married 56 years–no separation. Raised 4 kids. There. That’s my life.
There is research on how learning occurs best. College and schooling is pretty much the opposite.
In Australia the Uni’s are mostly voc ed certificate mills.
The offerings have well and truly been devalued. This is inevitable when a competitive advantage is offered to everyone. In Australia this was the fault of a lunatic called John Dawkins. He truly believed that offering people more education would lead to more employment.
Here is an analogy. We study the winners of sprinting races. We note that the winners of the races all have shoes. Then losers don’t have shoes. There is perfect statistical correlation – a remarkable result. So . . . if we give all runners shoes then everyone will win – of course! The policy in Australia really was this stupid. Give everyone a degree and everyone will get a job.
My first degree I went to uni to read novels. I enjoyed it very much. My second degree in adult ed was much less satisfactory. Very little of practical use – lots of talking about and not much doing of education. I did find the single best book on adult education – Eric Sotto’s When Teaching Becomes Learning (I found it in the library and introduced my favourite lecturer to it – he didn’t have time for reading!)
Bauman giving a wider perspective on this situation. I think he is quite insightful.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/31/downward-mobility-europe-young-people?newsfeed=true
Mike,
It’s bad enough when the courses aren’t very useful, can you imagine being saddled with a huge debt afterwards?
Rummuser,
I think here in the U. S. people are starting to realize the situation has to change. John Hennessy, president of Stanford University has told his colleagues that a tsunami is coming to higher education. He doesn’t know how it will break but it’s coming and he’s bound to try to surf it rather than just sit there: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303640104577440513369994278.html
Stanford experimented with putting lectures online so they could spend class time doing more interesting things. 100,000 people around the world signed up for the lectures. That was a wake up call. As Salman Khan of the Khan Academy points out the problem isn’t just providing students a chance to learn, they also need to give students the credentials they need to get jobs. My guess is they will start working that out.
bikehikebabe,
I had to work at college too but I’m not sure it built my character. I’m afraid that part is hopeless. 😀
Evan,
I like your analogy. We have the same problem here, confusing correlation with causation. That’s one reason we ended up with the housing crisis. People who own homes are good citizens so we’ll give easy credit so anyone can buy. It was a no-brainer because housing prices always keep rising. Yeah, sure.
Another idea that doesn’t seem to be working is to give all children access to computers. They need computer literacy and it will help them with their homework. Unfortunately if the parents don’t supervise the kids spend even less time studying. They’re too busy going on Facebook. And now Facebook is trying to figure out how to extend access to kids under 13.
Of course, if there won’t be jobs for them does it really matter? Thanks for the link. That’s a great article. The U.S economy and job situation are grim too. As the saying goes, we do live in interesting times.
Yes, Jean, I can imagine. One of our daughters’ friends finished with an art degree that she paid for with student loans. On top of that, she and her husband were not too careful with credit cards. So now, she can’t find work and, while he has a good job, they are at a standard of living far below what they could have had if she would have not even tried college.
Love the quote you started off with, Jean!
>I read one article that said 15% of student loans are owed by people over 65.
– As if being unable to cope with just surviving, there’s this to contend with? Already, we have seniors being forced to carry on working simply because they cannot *afford* to retire.
>I also think that it would be healthier if we stopped equating education with a college degree.
– This commencement speech was given by British author, Neil Gaiman, last month to the recent grads at the The University of the Arts, Philly.
He draws a parallel to your statement.
http:// http://www.uarts.edu/neil-gaiman-keynote-address
http:// http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=ikAb-NYkseI
The first link for the transcript and the lower one is the same speech on YouTube.
I’ve broken both links because I don’t know if your filter permits URLs.
>My sister didn’t go because she wasn’t interested. We both made great choices.
– Your sister is kinda like me. I’ve changed careers four times, and yes, I’ve had to study each time, but I chose careers that were not mainstream in my family. I veered off in a new direction each time because secure and noble as it was deemed, I wasn’t interested in mainstream.
>Would it have been worth being saddled with years and years of debt?
– I do not have a student debt anymore, so my answer may be biased.
I have learned and grown so much as a person during each study period. And then there’s all the personal progress I made on the field. Today, I feel it’s worth it. But if I were on the cusp of uni as an older teen today and I knew the debt I’d inherit at the end of it along with the uncertainty of finding a satisfying job, I’m not sure I’d be as gung ho as I was all those years ago.
Kate
Everyone in my family, siblings & offspring, went to college to learn a profession & then got jobs doing that. (doctors, engineers, scientists) I did what I wanted too–married with children. You have to choose a vocation that will support you besides loving what you do.
I knew a woman whose college choice was Greek & Latin 😀 My husband’s brother’s choice was philosophy. He did more college & became a Presbyterian minister. 🙂
This post & comments are very interesting.
I took a university degree for a year, found it totally uninspiring and dropped out. I’ve done very well since, picking up new skills here and there and doing a variety of quite different and very interesting jobs. Still working at age 65.
I think you’re right that college isn’t for everyone, it all depends on your own aptitudes and aspirations. If I were young today, I would certainly think twice about having to take out massive loans to go to college. When I did my degree course it was all free – tuition, subsistence and transport. I think all education should be free at whatever level, as it’s an investment in the whole society. Especially if student loans will still be hanging over people’s heads when they’re 65….
I can’t really reply but there is a bit of a “to-do” here about students, loans, and job market…big protests in the last couple of weeks around the City.
I am currently a student at a University – I’m not in it particularly for the future because I’m in a “future” 🙂
Mike,
She would have done well to read/listen to Kate’s link. If you want to be an artist, create art. Unless she wanted to be an art teacher, then probably a degree would help.
Kate,
Thanks for the links. I especially loved,
He has a great sense of humor. His advice to do great art doesn’t work for me, though. I’m more a believer in “Anything worth doing is worth doing poorly.” That doesn’t mean you don’t get absorbed and work on things. It just means you don’t worry about how things will turn out. Getting absorbed and spending hours on projects is one of my greatest joys in life.
bikehikebabe,
A friend of mine in college majored in the classics (Greek and Latin). He expected to be a professor in the field but didn’t get tenure. Instead he turned his passion for going to concerts, operas, etc. into his dream job–he became a music critic for a major newspaper. Life is unpredictable, and sometimes that can be a wondrous thing.
Nick,
I’m not sure that it should be free. A lot of students in the U.S. spend a lot of time partying in college and the colleges themselves need some shaking up. I don’t think pouring in tax payer money would help the situation. I do think do think education should be affordable and that the colleges give good value for the money.
Cathy,
I thought of you as a wrote this post. You seem to be getting a lot out of going to the Uni. I agree there’s more to education than just aiming for job. If you happen to see a link about the to-do please let me know. It’s obviously a worldwide problem.
There’s just as much partying at Queen’s University in Belfast even with the tuition fees. In one particular area near the university the problem has got so serious that many of the long-time residents have moved out. And surveys say that despite tuition fees, the amount of face-to-face teaching time has stayed the same. The only change is that now they’re paying, the students expect to get exam passes with little or no effort!
there are couple of political education issues here right now…
this about class sizes, and what will be offered and what won’t below “college” level:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10811313
it was the Budget! that caused these problems…don’t know if it will show you anything as such. But this was the 2nd protest that I know of…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10810205
okay found the Blockade the Budget protest on Symonds Street and can attest it took place…but all I was doing at any one time was trying to get to class and then home through the protesters…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10808162
update on “class sizes” – so much protest that the government has decided NOT TO DO IT…
the people and the teachers WINNERS 🙂
Nick,
I imagine the people who moved out of the area would not be eager to subsidize the students! So who pays? The parents? Student loans? Scholarships?
Cathy,
Thanks for the links. I imagine with all the budget crises around the world we’ll be seeing more and more protests. What a mess!
Hi Jean,
I agree with you: easy credit can do more harm than good.
I also agree that we should retrieve the excessive emphasis/value given to college degrees and bestow more value/appreciation to technological courses – which sometimes are a quicker ticket into the job market.
Education in the US is extremely expensive. In Europe is cheaper (even with last year’s increase in tuitions; and if one chooses distance learning from top universities, then it is even cheaper and more practical) and now they are starting to re-focus on the technological aspect of education as well.
As an European college is just another step in the academic life which you may take or not; or take it in a later time in life. We don’t stress over it. But yes, I took a degree in Business and another in Political Sciences because I wanted to. I was fortunate enough to be able to pay my tuitions; but many don’t and so they apply for scholarships (which they don’t have to pay back; since our system is not like the American one).
Vital issue, no doubt.
Cheers
the annual gov’t budget was labelled the “zero budget” – mainly I think because there was no tax breaks for any sector in society…it was all about keeping money from flowing out too much i.e. education – various avenues (as above). But there was some more about tobacco/smokers which appears to be an ongoing problem/health wise.
But there are a whole lot of “health wise” problems – societies everywhere probably have problems in this arena…
And yes it seems that financial crisis in a certain European country is having a flow-down effect to many other countries. We are reliant on exports although the balance of imports probably doesn’t work well as we are small populace and we have the competitive neighbour, Australia on our doorstep…
It’s mostly student loans, but quite a lot of parents pay the fees. In which case, the students are under pressure to do well – quite a good incentive. Especially with the fees due to rise to around £9,000 a year. There are scholarships too but I’m not sure how many students get them.
i was fortunate (at least in my eyes) to have been from a family that valued continuous learning rather than “a degree.”
my brother is a scientist, obviously went the route of the degrees. and he is very successful.
i went for one year… dropped out to marry a man ten years older than i was. he was still paying off school loans, as well as child support. when he died at 43, people said to me…
“now you can go back to school! get your degree!”
instead, i picked up my life… got an excellent job in an area i enjoyed and never looked back. i love to read and i read many different types of books. that i think is the real key…
be curious and fascinated by life and learn about all aspects of it. that’s an education right there!
norwegians, when questioned why they are the “happiest nation” gave the answer…
“because the refuse collector in our country is as important as the doctor. and he is paid well for his service.”
that tells me everything.
we are a nation of ‘labelers.’ we have our values skewed in my humble opinion. (not so humble i guess. LOL.)
cheers and … what a neat post!
tammy j
Max,
It sounds as if Europe is facing up to the problem. I know historically Germany, at least, had a good vocational education system. The problem there was they decided when the kids were at an early age who was going where.
I read an article the other day extolling Europe for providing vocational education. But the article ended by saying it wasn’t that much better for the students because there still weren’t enough jobs when they got out of school.
We have scholarships here in the U.S. That’s how I was able to go to Stanford. In the past they were for the best students or athletes. I don’t know what the situation is now.
Cathy,
It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. Money is almost certainly going to be tight for a long time. What kind of health care system do you have?
Nick,
Better to have the parents paying and putting pressure on the kids than to have the taxpayers paying the whole amount. As far as I can tell the kids are too clueless to realize what they’re getting themselves into. I’ve read that some didn’t even realize the difference between loans that had to be paid off and scholarships/other forms of free money. And a lot of people, adults included, don’t understand compound interest–that even if you pay something towards what you owe you can still wind up deeper and deeper in debt. My guess is a lot of our politicians don’t realize that either. Some of them still think we can spend our way out. Again, it will be interesting, and probably painful.
tammy,
I agree with you about the labeling problem! I certainly am having a blast right now learning about all sorts of things. Since a lot of those things is learning about new electronic gadgets and computer software, I have a lot of “opportunities” to solve problems. Things are seldom simple and they often don’t work the way they’ve been described. 🙂
“Norwegians, the happiest nation,” say “the refuse collector in our country is as important as the doctor. and he is paid well for his service.”
Everyone deserves respect no matter what their job. But this system is unfair. The refuse collector is overpaid & the doctor is underpaid for all the years of work he did to become a doctor. Sweden, (where my daughter lives) has the same system.
Jean,
Cuba, Mozambique and Angola (in late 70’s mid-80’s) used to decide who was taking which course as well. But when you speak of Germany, are you referring to GDR (Eastern Germany)? Cause I know they used to do the same there – well, communist countries used to do that.
And that article may have a point: at this moment, successful businesses aren’t hiring much and many others are closing down.
In Europe, scholarships are for those who cannot afford tuition (but if they have excellent grades, the better). I don’t think Portugal grants scholarships to athletes; perhaps it should?
But bikehikebabe, the garbage collectors make the greater contribution to public health. If people were paid for the amount of effort put into training that would be interesting. Many a music student or art student would end up being better paid than a doctor.
What represents value and how this relates to money gets interesting I think.
For instance business people are always insisting it’s not about the money. I say take them at their word. Give them welfare and distribute a gold stars in place of $100k/year.
Yes, garbage collectors do keep us well. Doctors aren’t much help until we’re ill & often that’s too late.
My major in college was Organ, but I took piano lessons every week from 2nd grade through high school. No money made from that work. The after-school lessons interfered with cooking dinner & time with my kids so I gave that up.
Max,
I was referring to West Germany in 1960. I can’t remember when the kids took the test that decided their path.
My scholarship was based on need as well as academic achievement. As I recall it paid for tuition and room and board but not for books and other things. I borrowed money for the rest from my folks.
bikehikebabe,
The Scandinavian system has the advantage that doctors/etc. will do the studying because they want to practice their profession for its own sake, not just because its lucrative.
Evan,
I agree!
Jean,
Germany in the 60’s: I didn’t know that. I have learned something new, thank you! 😀
Cheers